tv Geraldo at Large FOX News August 22, 2011 2:00am-3:00am PDT
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relieved they are. they are tearing down all of the qaddafi posters and pulling down all of the green. there are bullets every where i have to tell you as people fire into the air in celebration. there are a number of destroyed cars on the perimeter of the square and it looks as though there has been some kind of a battle where the rebels are clearly very much in control of the square right now. >> very much in control of the square right now. alex crawford of sky news our correspondent on the scene. she has done a magnificent job and courage some of the best war correspondents on earth happen to be women. really amazing job. our process producer is live in
libya. i would love to be able to say it's all over but the surrender -- we can say rebel forces in libya now appear to be firmly in control of the center of tripoli the capitol muammar gaddafi the long time dictator even as he exported terror to the rest of the world has disappeared his whereabouts unknown. what do you know anything about the whereabouts of the man who terrorized his people now for four decades plus two? >> geraldo the whereabouts of muammar gaddafi who has been in charge so long anybody's guess really. i can tell you one thing the scene changed so dramatically it went from very dangerous to tense and now it is plain erie. 20 minutes ago a british television crew turned up at the hotel we said how on earth? the drive into the hotel was spooky. they said there's nothing about
buildings burning but around the hotel meant nothing. but we are like kids in a candy score. the close scrutiny when -- we have begun going around the hotel finding interesting things. there is massive journalists that indicates what we wrote and communications basically moni r monitored this is confirmation we were working under this close scrutiny. you have this vehicle that has been abandoned with the rockets and boots ammunition spread all around but absolutely nobody. it is quite an astonishing scene here. >> i would image very dangerous also. you click the safety off you
pull the trigger and you have yourself an unguided missile. it sounds to me that it could be the worse is still to come in terms of violence there in the center of tripoli. >> without a doubt geraldo. i am being told the crews in the green square have been told to leave simply because the rebels are saying they can't guarantee their safety. when we uncovered these rockets they are still wandering around the hotel because they are irritated very awning gree not confrontational. there are these pockets in the city still where these holdsouts refuse to cap pit late they don't see the writing on the wall and they are going to battle to the bitter end. the government spokesperson ibrahim said today some of these people are so deeply intwined with the gaddafi regime to them there is no way out. it is just all the unknown with the rebels really. they are going to duke it out
until the bier end. >> also said they claimed over a thousand casualties civilians dead in the last 24-hours of the nato offensive. that seems totally unrealistic does it not? >> he said many things. somewhere under there there might have been a grain of truth. he said 365 people died the first night of finding on saturday when the up rising first began planned for months when everyone was breaking fast and soldiers would have been preoccupied with getting food after a long day of fasting. that was obviously very well coordinated. he was telling us to do open executions happening with up to 30 people who have been sympathized vocal for the regime had been taken out of their homes in recent days and executed.
you haven't seen any evidence of that on any of the media coverage coming into us and that you are seeing in america. you would think if this was going on then surely we would be seeing it on our television screens. journalists don't turn their back on that kind of thing. somewhere along the line you have to glean the truth from what you have been told. i think both sides have been guilty in this particular conflict over the last six or seven months. they made -- the government made claims it's very hard to believe anything you hear from either side sometimes. >> i am going to go to four star general in just a second. is state television still on the air in tripoli? are you still watching the official state television in tripoli? >> geraldo, you are going to like this. they are showing state television. in the basement of this very building that i am speaking to you from is a studio the likes of which you and i both wish we
would have. amazing facilities. they were broadcasting the propaganda from there the whole way through this. spokesperson was named the fled. the state tv is still on but they are showing reruns of the human shields who were putting themselves around his compound. >> now to the aforementioned four star general retired fox news military contributor. general -- colonel, i can't promote him. do you have general keaton? there he is. this thing took a long time. it took six months. if this had gone down in the first couple days after tunisia, it would have been one thing. but in six month adding to the beats that they have had historically you have a lot of people killed and property
destroyed, a lot of bitter feelings here, are you worried about the possibility of a bloodbath right now? >> you have to be. this is an important transition period if this plays out as expected that qaddafi has really given up his role as dictator of libya those military forces he had collapsed because of that this transition will hopeful lilla and order and stability is critical. don't lose control of the streets. we don't want to see general looting. we certainly don't want to see a general sense of lawlessness or revenge killings as we have seen in other places. this is going to be a test of the unity and leadership of the rebel organization and its ability to maintain control of its population. >> would you say, general, that this is the time we should have boots on the ground? not the united states. i am firmly against that but maybe french maybe italians. the italians probably do a third
of the foreign trade with libya. >> it would be a role to play with security forces to help establish some stability, but i think that is their call. if they feel they need to do that or if they put the stree p back out on the streets to maintain law and order. that is something they need to make judgment about. >> in terms of celebrating or being fearful which side of the fence do you sit tonight? >> i am pretty optimistic. this is a big set back for radical islam. there is nobody in the streets advocating their ideology. quite frankly they want the big two ideas that come from the west democracy and capitalism. that is good news. you certainly don't want to be encouraging people in syria to continue to fight after they see what has happened here. so i think it's mostly positive. we will see what they transition
to in terms of their capacity to maintain law and order and stability and also their capacity to govern at some point. those in the southern israeli border during the mubarak days that was -- quietest border now you have hijackings and terrorist attack. you have to be careful what you wish for. not that we don't want a transition to democracy. we do want that but what we don't want is transition to an eye rainian st style religious government that just hates the west particularly the united states. we will continue our comprehensive coverage of tripoli the crumbling of the qaddafi regime military civilians and experts in washington and on the scene. the world exclusive i am going to bring you up to date on the
>> colonel bill cowan just below me. they should reverse that i am a private. colonel before i get to you i want to read part of the statement from the president. the future of libya is in the hands of the people in the united states will continue to stay close coordination with transitional national council. th we will continue to insist the basic rights of the libyan people are respected. we will continue to work with our allies and partners in the international community to protect the people of libya and support a peaceful transition to democracy that from the president of the united states who you know is vacationing.
>> colonel bill cowan you have been around long enough we have seen the fall of many cities in cairo the tune in to tunisia. saigon back in the day what happens when w sidney? >> i remember saigon. just like tripoli they fell rare quickly. things kinds of turned quickly. there was chaos for a while. in the case of saigon the sri et come came in with a death grip on the city. they held off people that were never seen again. what is interesting in this case is the president said and everybody in nato wants there to be a peaceful a careful transition but when we were fighting gaddafi we knew what the targets were and nato could strike at them. the sides can't get together now
who do we strike at? they try to get sorted out hopefully not but indeed there are killings revenge killings going on. we didn't support this effort for those kinds of things to happen. we a we are not going to be able to play a roll and stop them without a security force. >> general mcinerney is right. i pointed out nato did a lot of the heavy lifting. they did the strikes and all of the rest to make it happen it would not happen but for us. it was a good thing the president was involved to the extent that he was. was it a violation that he should not have? >> i think a couple of things. one what is done is done. now the question is what happens
next. now a lot of moments do you do the jimmy carter model where you say it's up to the iranians do we get involved? do we sit back and hope for the best? what we ended up with was the ayatollahs. or do you do what reagan did you see it coming the iron curtain goes down. you don't tell them what to do but you give them the tools to over come their government. over 40 years it has been run by dictators. they have no experience running a country. >> unlike the soviet bure rats they have no government in libya. >> it was a cult. there is no military no police force that is independent. all of the institutions need to be created pronto. you don't have a better life for a lot of people you will have dissatisfaction and that's
wherein sur again sees come. >> we are pleased to say the price of oil looks like it's stable. they are giving me the future of the crisis it looks like $83 a barrel pretty good. looks like the price of gas is going to go down. >> that is because the markets are anticipating they will be back on the market big time the tenth largest producer of oil that is pro enreserves but they are the 17th producer a huge gap between potential production and what they are actually able to produce. they will view libyan oil which is sweet easy to get at. this can all be very good news for oil if stability is restored. >> it all depends on what happens tomorrow obviously?
>> everything depends on leadership, geraldo. >> again let me go to captain chuck nash. one thing about level lugs, it is hard to fight armies it's easy to blow up stuff. easy to blow up pipelines easy to be disruptive. easy to be anarchists. is that the fear captain nash? >> it is one of the prime factors. up until this point this has been a rag tag bunch of guys who have been kidded one automatic weapons and automatic aircraft guns now they are driving through the country. those are out in the wild. militias that appears killed general yonas with the help of religious figures that were
involved with the council, you know all of this we do really know what's going to happen with the leadership where we knew some of those people were at least people put out in the front by the leaders. now the question is who is running the show and if anarchy breaks out you have a lot of weapons to head up the militia. >> remember jose
libya. the casey anthony acquittal unpopular 25-year-old florida mom who allegedly -- who was alleged to have but acquitted charges of killing her child. before we leave this topic and believe me folks when i tell you we are keeping one eye on any development when we get any news in the second half hour, this our second hour of the special broadcast concerning libya we will bring it to you in a heartbeat. we have a panel we respect deeply. military analyst bin laden was confirmed to have been killed i was with him. so your closing statement, general? >> geraldo it's a euphoric night for everybody qaddafi is gone. what i am afraid of tomorrow who will run the city who will take charge who will declare martial law who will feed the people.
i am deeply concerned with what's going on in the muslim brotherhood the potential there what is going on there ks and what is happening in israel. there a lot of things happening right now. they are going to create a lot of mischief and tripoli is a place where they will increase their ability to cause problems. i am very, very pessimistic if we don't watch it closely. >> middle eastern and well regarded author. >> this is an era what we can project is number one transitional government if will mover to tripoli into saudi arabia would be trying to help financially for a period of time so no humanitarian crisis will take place. this transitional housing will ensure the contract with regard to oil.
>> more importantly weeks from now we will be getting attention from the morris lambist and secular part. >> the west is more secular than the east. >> i think for iran, for syria for the remaining ought kratz of the world the transitional council have been courageous they will be courageous enough to answer it if they get it. >> we are only in the first act of the three act play what are they going to do settle or govern is qaddafi going to flee or fight? >> i doubt he is going to fight. where is [ man ] behind every business is a "what if." what if we designed an electric motorcycle? what if we turned trash into surfboards?
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>> some recognition, they had some time to think about this so the fact that it did actually take so long is probably better than, you know, if it had fallen in the middle of the arab spring. >> james, there's an obvious understandable concern about these people who are "loyal" to muammar qaddafi and who are now basically throwing up their hands and surrendering, and saying we're going to join this transitional force. can you describe it for those who don't understand this whole, you know, you've got these tribal, these tribal situations that date back years and years and years, for those of us who don't understand that, explain how -- how intense the level of commitment is to somebody like muammar qaddafi when you have these tribal situations in play. >> but i mean, it does make it interesting. these kinds of regimes, it's hard to tell where people really stand. when you have these dictatorial
regimes you have people very loyal to the government until they don't have to be. after the fall of the wall came down, some of the strongest democrats were people actually in the government. the good news is they did it, right, so they've got to control this. so -- and they obviously understand the situation on the ground far better than occupier coming in from the outside and trying to impose rule. so the real question now is -- which is called, you know, reconciliation and reintegration which is sorting out the truly bad guys giving people the opportunity to come back and turn it around. as long as qaddafi is out there and he can continue to hold out, that could also be a problem. >> what i'm wondering is there is a way forward when we get his sons. two are captureded, i understand, they're going to -- they're going to the netherlands and going to the hague. is that the same place qaddafi would go when he's caught?
>> that's really up to the libyan government. i think that was a mistake. i actually think that prolonged the conflict because the threat of going to the icc really left qaddafi and his family kind of no door out of the country because they knew they'd wind up in jail. i think it would have been better from the start. and this -- see, the icc is not the international criminal court was not designed for situations like this. here you have an indigenous governing body that's going to take over the country. they are more than capable of deciding how to deal with the people in their country, not some international court. can you imagine what egypt would be like today if everybody had insisted mubarak be turned over to the icc instead of actually having to be dealt with by the egyptian people? >> that's such a good point. james joining from us the heritage foundation, sir, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> you bet. very fluid scene this morning. we don't know what's going to happen to muammar qaddafi. maybe some time in our broadcast, he'll be brought to justice. we move ahead. >> keeping a very close eye
>> all right. this is a fox news alert and we have lots to talk to you about early on this monday morning. where in the world is muammar qaddafi? we don't know exactly but we do know the streets of tripoli are filled with thousands of rebels. as you can see, shooting guns every which way. celebrating that they have overtaken that city. >> rebels and revelers. >> fighting force that was supposed to be the last breath of protection for muammar qaddafi evidently surrendered as the rebels started entering into town. >> you know why, the commander of that, his brother was killed
by muammar years ago. >> find out his son who is thought to be the heir apparent was basically gave himself up. so he's now under arrest and we understand is being treated well. muhammad was caught on the phone talking to al jazeera crying. it's believed his other son was caught. where would qaddafi go? at first, it was thought to t e tunisia where his wife and daughter escaped to. more than likely, it would be algeria. algeria would be problematic. they have great relations there and algeria would export him to the world court. zimbabwe would be the most troublesome. that's where a couple of dictators called home and they would be one to ignore the cries it release qaddafi. >> he could head to italy, where the former prime minister went when he decided to defect. >> speaking of prime ministers, you'll see the exterior of 10
downing street where we're waiting for a statement by david cameron on the libyan situation. we should point out, of those many scenarios that brian just depicted, there are some reports out there that, perhaps, qaddafi was seen as part of a seven vehicle caravan headed towards algeria. all we know for sure is he did appear on state-run television yesterday pleading with his people, grab a gun, do whatever you can, get out in the streets and save our country. that's what he said yesterday. in the meantime, his many security forces, a lot of them simply took off their uniforms and tried to melt into the crowd. >> while the scenes here may look euphoric and may be in a federal situation because even when nato reportedly the catch phrase, they're calling this kind of a catastrophic success or at the very least, a chaotic success because they don't know what's going to happen ultimately once this transitional government is ready to take power. >> the rebels have been warned for what it's worth, don't be
brutal. don't start exacting any punishment because the nato mission is a humanitarian mission. it's not to oust qaddafi so if the rebels start exacting some revenge and maybe you can respect that they would because they're so angry after 42 years of repression, does nato turn their guns on the rebels if they start slaughtering innocent libyans? >> i guess that's the thing, though, are these -- are these libyans going to be so -- are they going to be loyal to muammar qaddafi? probably not likely. >> if they're recognized as somebody who is a qaddafi loyalist, do they take things into their own hands? >> there are many, many questions on this monday morning and perhaps in the coming hours, we'll have some of the answers because it looks like the fall of tripoli for muammar qaddafi is just moments away and we are going to step aside and back in 90 seconds.
>> tanks are rolling out of muammar qaddafi's compound with rebels, controlling 90% of tripoli right now. >> this seems to confirm some of his men on the run. his allies leaving his uniforms in the street to melt into the crowd. >> what does this mean for the price of oil? could the unrest send the markets into a tailspin? we have every angle of this story as the regime is turning